Reverse triangle 4 link?

Discussion in 'Suspension/Chassis' started by Lotoy, Jul 12, 2013.

  1. Lotoy

    Lotoy Enthusiast

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    I've done this a few times on builds I've done! What are the pros and cons you guys have experienced? I know longer the bars the better and you want the bars equal length to reduce pinion angle from moving a lot during travel! I just really hate that ugly gas tank in the back!!!! Any thoughts or comments would be great!
     
  2. White Trash

    White Trash Toyotaholic

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    There are a few different link set ups that I'll never understand and certainly not copy and the reverse 4 link is on that list. :lol:

    If you don't like the gas tank in the back then don't use the stock one. I've got this fuel cell without the built in sender. It'll fit about anywhere and I can polish it to look sweet. Not a big deal to punch a hole in the top and drop a factory yota pump & sending unit into it if I go efi. :D

    Here's a start for idea's.

    http://www.summitracing.com/search?PageSize=100&keyword=aluminum fuel cell&dds=1
     
  3. Litneon

    Litneon Super Moderator Staff Member

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    This has already been hashed out. Having daily driven a truck with a reverse 4 link for three years or more now, I don't understand the prejudice against them. I've experienced no noticeable lift under acceleration, no strange handling. In fact, my truck handles and rides beautifully.

    http://www.toyotaminis.com/forum/suspension-chassis-67/4-link-forward-vs-reverse-10396/

    http://www.toyotaminis.com/forum/suspension-chassis-67/little-help-4-link-8502/

    I honestly think that the reverse hate comes from a not-so-thorough understanding of the physics involved. No, they aren't as tunable as a forward setup, but they do the job. When properly designed, they are reliable and predictable.

    Rear Suspension - Instant Center - Mini Truckin' Magazine

    Read the article from Minitruckin' a couple of times. Do your research and then do what works best for you. You can screw up a forward 4 link just as easily as a reverse setup.
     
  4. Lotoy

    Lotoy Enthusiast

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    I had a split 4 link on my last yota two forward and the center bars back it worked great! I was just wanting to hear what you guys liked the best and if any problems! Thanks guys I've been out of the scene since 2007 but I've always had this yota I'm building now just static on 18s just trying to catch up on everything
     
  5. standardbyker88

    standardbyker88 Grand Toyotaholic

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    I would say ditch the stock tank regardless of the suspension. They're usually a funny shape that doesn't maximize the space they take up. And there's plenty of room for a flat tank behind the axle. I think the traditional setups are easier in the long run. I plan to do a wishbone 3 link on my 78. Going to put a custom tank where the stock one is to gain the small capacity available from losing the pinch weld edge it has. It'll be about 2" wider and longer than the stock one is given the new shape. The upper bar will have 2 pivots at the axle and one on a frame crossmember. Sort of like a bent Y shape. Should fit the suspension and exhaust setup.
     
  6. TheLoLux

    TheLoLux Toyotaholic

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    You can raise the stock tank up like this. [​IMG]
    And put a lower link under it. Then run rear bar for the bags. Just put it on shackles or dog bones like this. [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
     
  7. standardbyker88

    standardbyker88 Grand Toyotaholic

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    That's sort of the way I was walking for a wish one. Raising the tank is a good idea. My plan is similar to that. Only no rear bars, just some coil overs. Looks simple.
     
  8. burnzya

    burnzya Grand Toyotaholic

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    i've owned one truck with reverse 4 link and drove several.

    the one thing i notice is on take off i can make the tires spin easier then a 4 cylinder should be able to. thats the axle lifting because the link is backwards. only time it was an issue was taking off, and really wasn't a issue for me.

    they all handled at speed decent, even on freeway transitions. but you have to have shocks. without them the reverse links was by far the scariest thing i have ever driven. it would almost switch lanes when a series of bumps came in the road.

    the only other downside i had with them was the pinion change, but they all had unequal length arms top and bottom. i'm sure with equal length it wouldn't be as bad. with the unequal arms it would be nice riding low but would vibrate like crazy when lifted. part because of the pinion angle and part because it does pull the driveshaft out of the trans a lot.

    on my truck with a forward 3 link and a v8 i can feel the bed lift and the axle plant on take off. makes for more fun if you're into speeding around lol
     
  9. standardbyker88

    standardbyker88 Grand Toyotaholic

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    My reason exactly. Stockish 4 bangers may not complain about backwards bars but with big power you want forward bars. Ill have a V8 by the end of summer.
     
  10. 93_Toy_Mini

    93_Toy_Mini Addict

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    What I have learned is that if you think of the back of your trans as the pivot point unless you have a two piece drive shaft, then it would be the begining of the second drive shaft. There is a circular rotation from that point. So at the top and the bottom of your total travel range the axle moves forward some. If you have a forward four link, the pivotal rotation of the axle follows the rotation of the drive shaft. Like this )). On a reverse four link, the rotation of the drive shaft is opposite that of the four link so it looks like this )( so you will have a greater variation in pinion angle. At the top and bottom of your total travel, a reverse four link is actually trying to pull your drive shaft away from that pivot point. This is what made me want to run a forward link set-up but I have the same kit as Litneon it would be a whole lot simpler for me to just slap it on but I plan on a V8 (1UZ-FE) swap as well and I was told that the same kit can be ran forward but that mean more measuring for me than Litneon.
     
  11. Litneon

    Litneon Super Moderator Staff Member

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    No, not more measuring. It's still the same, just make everything square. The pinion angle doesn't change on my setup. Being equal length bars, it can't. This actually ideal for u-joint harmonic cancellation (forwards or reversed). You can vary the bar length on the forward setup and have the pinion point towards the forward u-joint at all times, but this will normally induce a driveline vibration because of the reduction in cancellation.
     
  12. Xs5875

    Xs5875 Addict

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    My uppers are about 2" shorter than the lowers. I have a forward setup and still only get about 1/2 degree of change.
     
  13. Litneon

    Litneon Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Yeah, you'd have to change the length a bit more to get more angle difference.

    Also, as a side note. On a single piece drive shaft with a link setup, it is ideal to match the angle of the pinion and output shaft. On a two piece shaft, match the pinion and the front half of the driveshaft and then keep the front half parallel with the output shaft.

    This is pretty universal UNLESS you are running a dual cardan or CV joint, at which point you would want the pinion to point directly at the CV joint at all heights. The CV self cancels vibration, so any angle on the other end of that section of driveshaft would induce vibration that couldn't be cancelled, only dampened with some kind of big ugly mass dampener.

    The only other variation of these rules would be if you weren't using a link setup, with leaf springs, always point the pinion down 1 degree (give or take) to allow for axle wrap.
     
  14. 93_Toy_Mini

    93_Toy_Mini Addict

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    Another side note, did you have to notch the crossmember underneath the rear of the cab?
     
  15. Litneon

    Litneon Super Moderator Staff Member

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    On my extended cab? No, but I kept the two piece shaft.
     
  16. 93_Toy_Mini

    93_Toy_Mini Addict

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    Oh yeah, duh. forgot that part.
     
  17. Lotoy

    Lotoy Enthusiast

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    Thanks for the input,this site is very helpful!
     
  18. 93_Toy_Mini

    93_Toy_Mini Addict

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    I am working with Terry Franklin (he took over CanDo and renamed it KBS Fabrication) on a way to use that kit as a forward set up. Its not the same because everything has to be flipped upside down.
     
  19. Litneon

    Litneon Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Hmm. What do you mean?
     
  20. 93_Toy_Mini

    93_Toy_Mini Addict

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    Well, kind of... Actually, now that I think about, just the two outer bars on one end only. Instead of mounting them underneath the rear 2x3 it has to be mounted on top when put forward. It's the angles of the bars that I had questions about. I asked him if those brackets should be shorter.
     

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