Shorter air shock

Discussion in 'Suspension/Chassis' started by _Quickfox, Jan 16, 2020.

  1. _Quickfox

    _Quickfox Enthusiast

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    So I found that ma803 aired out completely are not short enough for my taste.

    I have belltech drop leafs and 5inch blocks (don't make fun of me); with the ma803 the rear sits just a touch higher (aired out completely) than the factory (blown prolly) length shock.
    KIMG0353~2.JPG
    Not a great picture but might as well.

    So I'd like to use air shocks...but what do folks use with a setup lower than mine in the rear? Will the truck sit lower if I find more low in it? How do I find more low?

    I can shorten the shackles at the back of the leaf; I can move the front leaf mount; I guess I could dearch the belltechs; more block is not really an option, less block would be better; Moar low would be better.

    Good news, these Monroe's w/ no air ride WAY better than the old shocks...but the ride height it's at now would be better at 20psi; it tucked the tire with the old shocks. I jumped all over it drove it over all the bumps. This is where it wants to sit...but I want it lower.
     
  2. jetas

    jetas Grand Toyotaholic

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    Is it bottoming out on the frame and you want air shocks to avoid the impact?
     
  3. _Quickfox

    _Quickfox Enthusiast

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    It was bangin the axle unburdened, had more body roll..now with the shocks (ma803) aired all the way out it's higher. I've heard ppl run air shocks with no air...I'll tell you it's much stiffer (can drive with less worry of smashing the frame/axle), and seems to be fine (10miles of experience). I'd like to go lower in the back and use the shocks for more load (motorcycle); also trying to have some fun i.e hittin switch(es).

    Just found this thread:
    https://toyotaminis.com/forum/threads/stock-drop-shock-guide-chart.17415/

    It looks like I'll want to try '83 Corvette shocks (ma785).

    What's the next thing I should do to get low? Lower..moar lower.
     
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  4. jetas

    jetas Grand Toyotaholic

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    C notch the frame and relocate the upper shock mount for more travel
     
  5. _Quickfox

    _Quickfox Enthusiast

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    Yes, but what about actual lowness? Did I miss anything easy? Body drop, but do I have other good options for less block (or the same block) and more low? Is having the springs dearched or custom springs made the best next step?

    I had concerns of lift I'll get with the Corvette shock. So thanks for the shock mount relocation advise, and thank you for your quick responses jetas!

    Yes, i'll need to notch the frame. Without a welder, I'll wait for a notch/shock mount/leaf bracket/cross member/stuff.

    I'll bet these shocks will work lower huh? They're not bottoming out, it's just..they sit higher, the bed is raking the wrong way now; it was reverse raked (what I want), now it's stinky.

    Sorry everyone should disregard this thread, all the answers are in the search button, it's not even going where I titled it...

    -Aaron
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2020
  6. jetas

    jetas Grand Toyotaholic

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    only thing you can do different at this point is notch it, 4 link and coilovers. Not much more you can do with the leafs
     
  7. _Quickfox

    _Quickfox Enthusiast

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    Right on, thx bud! Sorta what I gathered.. wish these Beetle shocks weren't doing what they doin.

    Thanks for the tips!
     
  8. _Quickfox

    _Quickfox Enthusiast

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    Okay so I've discovered leaf sliders.

    Screenshot_20200117-091413~2.png
    First found them on muscle car forums..but seems they are also fabed for off road trucks regularly.

    These leaf sliders have been said to: reduce bodyroll, and keep a more consistent spring rate. Additionally they may allow lower vehicle height, can be designed to do so.

    There are (as far as I can tell) many handling benefits..more than I can convey rn rn. As I plan to stay leaf (not wanting to cut the bed), lowering my leaf mounting points is looking like the next course of action, and leaf sliders look the part!

    I'll post on it; looks like I need a welder sooner than later. It's really tough to find a mini truck shop around here..

    -Aaron

    Ps. Mainly I started this thread because the air shocks I bought and installed..leaked. They took 'em back. What length shock do I want? Maybe like jetas suggest I should go with longer shocks...
     
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  9. jetas

    jetas Grand Toyotaholic

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    Not longer shocks, just different upper mounting point.
    Having that rear slider, id imagine as the leaf flattens its going to pull the axle back a little, in turn pulling the driveshaft. Or am i wrong?
    Ive only seen this done on off road vehicles where they have the telescoping driveshafts


    *Edit* on second thought, its not a ridiculous amount of movement. And ive already found some fairly inexpensive ones with a quick good search
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2020
  10. Justin Danger

    Justin Danger Toyotaholic

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    Seems that sliding would accomodate the driveshaft better. As the suspension compresses the rear axle will travel in an arc rotating at the u joint, bit a static spring will move only vertically. Granted I am picturing this all in my head... but makes sense to me!
     
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  11. _Quickfox

    _Quickfox Enthusiast

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    Yeah whoa, I was stoked to find those. Apparently the sliders are most used on old race cars (or those that use leafs) of different sorts, but are put on trucks (tho the 4x4 shops don't know much about them).

    I'm not exited about how much I'm going to ponder suspension design before I install some.

    Taking measurements today for lowering the (truck at the) front leaf point (so easy!); I'll take some pictures when I get back on it.

    It looks like, while I'm under here, there will by much low available with a slider replacing the shackle. I also found a good shop that will notch my frame, 4x4 shop where David said "Before I was into 4x4s, I had lowriders!". Shop is PV Auto, Tucson, AZ.

    So I can spend money on a welder of my own (eventually), and on a fabricator who knows what he's doing (for things like the frame notch). If I think I can do the sliders myself I will barrow a friend's welder, I: May not take it off jack stands without cutting the shackle frame point off to see about how low it will end up!

    As I'm completely convinced I will use sliders for the leaf springs, this will be the first "frame" cut! There are bolt on sliders available which makes me less nervous to cut "into" the frame..oh wait I've already cut (butchered really) an exhaust hanger so no worries.

    I figure with this truck the goal is lowness and the most fun I have is achieving low, plus it's a Toyota pick up from the 80s it can take a lot of abuse. So hack away. I'll put discription in my build.

    Thanks for the input you guys!

    I had thought of the axle traveling towards the rear (which it does to some extent with shackle), if it does more with a slider idk. I believe that majority (rwd leaf spring?) driveshaft have a slip yoke that will accommodate for a lot of travel (only guessing).

    And the shock length depends on a lot, but rather then try shorter Corvette shocks..I think I'll stay with the VW'.

    -Aaron

    Can I change the title of this thread to "rant"?
     
  12. RaceLab

    RaceLab Newbie

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    if you just want more travel for the shock ( to help keep it in the center of its travel) you can lower the bottom mounting point with bolt on adapters. I think DJM makes them.
     
  13. MrDinkleman

    MrDinkleman Veteran

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    Re: leaf sliders...

    Just spit-balling off the top of my head:
    1. Interesting idea but that slider mechanism needs improvement. Maybe okay for a race car that sees constant maintenance but there should be a better way to capture a sliding motion.
    2. I don't immediately see how it would help reduce body roll or keep a more consistent spring rate. It just transforms an arc motion to a linear motion. But if that's the actual result I won't argue it. Just need to think about it.
    3. Raising the rear spring eye will probably result in greater bump/roll steer which is not always a good thing.
    4. I can see why 4X4 shops aren't familiar with it since it would end up lowering a truck which is not what they normally do.
    5. It will change the pinion angle.

    Having said ALL that, it's a very interesting idea. With a sliderinstalled, looks like you can use a 1inch shorter lowering block. I need to really consider this..,

    Thanks for the discovery!
     
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  14. RaceLab

    RaceLab Newbie

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    i can see how it would reduce body roll by eliminating \the rear shackle... the shackle having two sets of bushings actually allows the leaf spring to twist when subjected to cornering loads... there would be almost no leaf spring twist using the sliders.c
     
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  15. MrDinkleman

    MrDinkleman Veteran

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    Ah, yes. I had forgotten about compliance in the bushings. But you can always get Delrin bushings and those heavy-duty H-welded shackles...
     
  16. Justin Danger

    Justin Danger Toyotaholic

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    All commercially available slider boxes that i have seen will actually drop the rear spring mount lower than where my shackle hangs with my drop springs. Most of them also are made for muscle cars with a 1" rear eye, which ours are not.
    When this discussion first came up I did a lot of research and realized how much work and parts would be required.
    Honestly our trucks aren't heavy enough or have enough power to make it worthwhile.
     
  17. Perkolator

    Perkolator Toyotaholic

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    Curious to see someone add in some slider boxes.
    I've had them in the back of my mind for my truck if I ever find time to do it - I figured if I plan to chop the frame to c-notch then I might as well french in the front spring hanger and slider box too...dunno how it would turn out in reality though :shrug:
     
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  18. _Quickfox

    _Quickfox Enthusiast

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    Have been out of it for a while, I will try to be delicate but a lot of times I just smash into things...starting to think about trucks again for a time. This truck, the Bonnie one...it's v low °_°

    and I wanted moar!?

    Okay yes I still do; have had to be practical for a while..and other chassis projects to be feated. Spoiler alert I own a frickin 4runner. Not sure I posted anymore about the leaf relocation..and obviously I'm bad at updates, but I'll learn again how to use the internet and put some quick pics up kk not that interesting ^_^
     

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